Mind If We Talk? Season 2: What It Was Like to Be a Woman in the 1960s

Welcome to Episode 2 of Mind If We Talk? Season 2

Mind If We Talk? is an original mental health podcast created by BetterHelp and Acast Creative Studios that opens up real conversations about life’s challenging moments, and how therapy can help us navigate them. Over the course of 10 episodes, Season 2 brings two people together to share different perspectives on experiences that are deeply felt, yet rarely discussed. Through guided conversation, guests reflect on what they wish others understood about their inner world and what it means to truly listen and be seen. Each episode is hosted by Dr. Sreela Roy-Greene, a licensed BetterHelp therapist, who gently guides the conversation and offers therapeutic insight along the way.

Episode 2: I Wish You Knew What It Was Like to Be a Woman in the 1960s

How much do we really know about the lives our mothers and grandmothers lived before we knew them as family? In this episode, Sreela Roy Greene sits down with Kim Murstein and Gail Rudnick, the granddaughter and grandmother behind the podcast Excuse My Grandma, for a conversation shaped by affection, friction, and a genuine willingness to keep listening.

Gail looks back on early adulthood in the 1960s, a time when women often had to make life-defining choices quickly and with fewer visible options. As she puts it, “You can’t have it all,” a phrase that lands differently in conversation with Kim, who is building a life in her twenties in a world that offers more freedom, more ambiguity, and a different kind of pressure. Their exchange is not about proving whose path is right. It is about context, memory, and what becomes possible when both generations stay curious long enough to hear the story underneath the opinion.

Later, Sreela is joined by licensed BetterHelp therapist Sonni Williams to unpack what makes these conversations productive. Together, they explore intergenerational learning, family roles, boundaries, and why the most useful starting point may be shifting from judgment to curiosity. If you have ever wanted to better understand the women who came before you, or explain your own choices without losing connection, this episode offers a thoughtful place to begin.

What admiration sounds like before the harder questions begin

GAIL:

I got married in the six sixties. Many of the women who I was very friendly with left. They, the women left their husbands in the seventies because they felt they had been cheated out of the workforce, out of doing their own thing. It was a very time of women's lib. We had, uh, you know, loads of controversies at that point. Uh, and they were angry.

SREELA:

Welcome back to ‘Mind If We Talk?’, where you get to be a fly on the wall for mini therapy sessions, and learn some mental health tips in the process.

I’m your host, Sreela Roy Greene, a licensed mental health counselor with BetterHelp, with over 19 years of experience.

This season is all about bringing two people together who see the world a little differently and helping them trade assumptions for understanding. Not to “win” the conversation, just to get closer.

Because honestly? Sometimes the most healing sentence in a relationship isn’t, “I agree.” It’s, “tell me more.”

And, just like last season, we’ll spend the second half of each episode sitting down with a BetterHelp therapist to break down what we can learn.

And today’s episode is a perfect example.

We’re talking about what it was like for young women in the 1960s.

But many of us don’t actually know the full story of the people who raised us. For example here: a survey from Ancestry found that only 37% of Americans say they’re familiar with their mom’s life before they were born, like her early dreams, her struggles, the decisions that made her who she is. And yet, most people say they wish they knew more about their family’s history.

So the desire for connection is there. Sometimes we just don’t know what questions to ask. But today, we’re going to try. For this conversation, I’m joined by Kim Murstein and Gail Rudnick, the granddaughter and grandmother behind the Excuse My Grandma podcast. They’re hilarious, they’re honest, and they’ve turned generational differences into something I love: a project rooted in curiosity.

You’ll hear what dating, marriage, family expectations, and “having options” really looked like for Gail coming of age in the ’60s, and how her granddaughter Kim holds all of that alongside what it means to be a woman in her twenties today.

And after their conversation, I’ll sit down with licensed therapist Sonni Williams from BetterHelp to break down how to navigate these generational differences with compassion, open-heartedness, and boundaries that protect your own happiness, all things you can learn in therapy, by the way.

Alright, pull up a chair. Let’s talk.

SREELA:

It is so nice to meet you both. I just wanna say like, I'm a huge fan.

KIM:

Oh, I

GAIL:

Thank you.

SREELA:

And I really just enjoy, uh, hearing you both interact and speaking. And the, the thought that comes to mind as I watch you both interact and speak, um, and share your stories and your insights, um, made me think if you had an opportunity right now in this moment to share something that you appreciate about each other, what would that be?

KIM:

Oh, we have to be sappy. And I feel like I like that more than grandma does. Aw,

GAIL:

You go first, Kim.

KIM:

A thing that we should say to each other that we want each other to know. Um, I'm very impressed for about two things. One, your ability to always show up and perform at a hundred percent when we do commit to something. Um, and also both your openness to try new things, but also things that, you know, would make me happy, things that I wanna do. And you're mostly doing it, like I know for that reason, because, um, it's really about spending time together, I think.

GAIL:

Well, it started out like that, Kim, but now we're having a lot of fun, so I don't wanna give it up.

KIM:

Good. I'm glad you're into it too.

GAIL:

When I'm on a walker, you're gonna have to just go a little slowly. Yeah, yeah. You can't book me three times things in a row. All good.

KIM:

Okay. Now you have to talk. Say something about me.

GAIL:

Well, I think you're the most creative person I know. I've always thought that and I love you. Everything that you put together in your mind, and it becomes a reality. And I really envy that ability to do it. I, because I'm like, you always say I'm the talent, but really that's not the truth. The truth is you are the talent. Uh, thank you. So I really do appreciate that.

KIM:

I have a big imagination.

GAIL:

You certainly do. From the time you were very little. Yeah. You always used to think of storylines and, and little stories to write down, and it used to be fun sharing them.

SREELA:

So what I'm hearing is you're both sharing that with each other, is how much you actually compliment each other.

“Sometimes the most healing sentence in a relationship isn’t, ‘I agree.’ It’s, ‘tell me more.’”

The invisible rules Gail grew up with, and the choices women had to make

SREELA:

So Gail, if you have like a few, in a few sentences, however that feels comfortable, um, what was it like growing up in a generation where the expectations were very different?

GAIL:

Well, I grew up in, uh, the suburbs of New York, uh, in a fairly, uh, affluent community. And, um, but some people did not go to college. I would say most of my high school class and I was in public school, did not go to college. Most of them were in vocational schools, which should come back again. I think that, um, we grew up where family was center for us, and we were a very, very, uh, close knit family. We had, um, my mother and her sister lived with very close to each other. So we had two families that sort of shared grandparents every weekend they would come up, uh, from wherever they, they both lived in Manhattan, and they would come up, and both families were together. We were always had family lunches on Sunday where everybody was expected to be there. There was never a conversation.

There was nobody turning on a, a, a, a camera or a laptop and, uh, say, you know, zoning out. They had to be there present. Um, grandparents would ask questions about how school was, how we were doing with our either girlfriends or boyfriends, whatever the case could have been. And, um, so I think that helped me in my adult life, because I always had a solid framework of knowing my family was behind me, whatever I did. And then of course, um, I went to college. Uh, I met my husband very early. I was married at 21. So for me, I went from my family's home, which was a, a solid house. I went to, my husband and I had a small apartment, and we created our own life. Um, what I know 62 years later that I would have done what I've done and now doing this with my granddaughter, no. But one thing led to another. The family was always center. When you marry, you marry your mate's parents, and you have to show respect, and you have to somehow bring them into the fold as well. So, um, to make a good marriage, you really have to do those things. And it's not that easy.

SREELA:

No. It's work.

GAIL:

No, it's work. It's work.

SREELA:

That's what I'm also hearing you say, Gail, is that it's work no matter what. Right. It may not always feel like work, but it's work to keep

GAIL:

It, but it was more work. Absolutely. And you know, I was so resent a lot of my girlfriends when we first started out, I got married in the six sixties. Many of the women who I was very friendly with left. They, the women left their husbands in the seventies because they felt they had been cheated out of the workforce, out of doing their own thing. It was a very time of women's lib. We had, uh, you know, loads of controversies at that point. Uh, and they were angry. Uh, and in many cases, the children were the ones who suffered, of course. But most of them survived because their moms needed a chance to do what they wanted to do. I was fortunate that I was happy, uh, where I was.

“Many of the women who I was very friendly with left. They, the women left their husbands in the seventies because they felt they had been cheated out of the workforce, out of doing their own thing.”

SREELA:

It,

GAIL:

And I've said this to Kim, you can't have it all. I mean, it's ridiculous. Nobody should even put that in a, in a book or on a piece of paper. Uh, whether you're a man or a woman, you can't have it all. So now it depends what priority you want. Mm. The head, a CEO of a large company can't spend time at home. You have to divide roles. And it's something that young people today, um, are finding difficult. It's not so easy for them because they both have careers and they're having families much later. Um, we didn't have that, uh, issue because the social, uh, dynamics of the time were, by the time you were 21, 22, 23, if you didn't have children, they said, oh, you couldn't have children anymore. I mean, you know, that it was a very, um, early time for us to have families. So, I mean, women have to realize that if they, if they choose not to, that's fine too. Uh, but they have to know where their priorities are and what they are.

KIM:

Yeah. I was gonna say, like, jury's still out for me when it comes to the women can't have it all conversation. Because I think what you mean by that is like, you have to pick home or you have to pick work. But I don't believe that. Like, I think no, you can definitely have a successful career and have a family. Right. Um, but I wouldn't say like, you can't have,

GAIL:

You can have family and you can have children and you can have a wonderful marriage, but you have to put them into slots. You can't do it all at once because you're not super person. Nobody can, can juggle all those things at the same level. So when you're having young children, and it's not the same as when you're having adult children and they're out of the house. Or when you have a big, big job, you sometimes can't have four children. You maybe have to be satisfied with one child.

KIM:

Different priorities

GAIL:

At different

KIM:

Times.

SREELA:

Exactly.

GAIL:

Exactly.

SREELA:

Um, so Kim, you know, in, in hearing how your grandmother's describing things, what are your thoughts about the challenges and the differences, and how do you feel like that impacts the dynamic between the two of you and where you stand on things?

KIM:

Yeah. I have a few thoughts. I mean, one is that I am happy, even though I'm obsessed with nostalgia and I'm like a fifties file, like, and I love everything from that time. Um, I am happy to be a woman today because I feel like I have the most options with the least amount of like, stigma. And I'm not put in a box. Um, even if you liked the box you were in, like, I feel like the box, actually, there's still a box as a woman. I shouldn't even say that, but it's a much bigger box, right. Um, than before perhaps. Um, I, but yeah, I think like when hearing, um, about your experiences, like I know you've said to me before, like, oh, maybe I would've been a lawyer. Yeah. But then it was kind of shot down pretty quickly, and then I took this path. Um, I think like, I am happy that, um, you've like, found peace in that, but as kind of as you've said, like a lot of your friends, sometimes you regret it.

GAIL:

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you have regrets, there's no question. Uh, but do the, the, the happy parts outweigh the regrets. You have to weigh all those kind of things.

KIM:

Right.

“You can’t have it all.”

GAIL:

And you see how your friends now in their thirties, you know, it's a different conversation from when you're in your twenties to when you're in your thirties, all of a sudden your friends are gonna, you know, have gotten slowly but surely you're getting married, they're having families. So it becomes different priorities. Even, you know, even for, for people who have careers, uh, they have to see where, where it all fits together. Uh, and it's not always just 50 50, or even sometimes it's 30 70, that that one person needs to stay home more than the other. It depends on the job. And, uh, you know, you're very lucky you can do a lot of your work from home, but a lot of times people can't. So I think it depends on individual circumstances.

KIM:

Yeah. I was just say, it's so individualized. Yeah. Like, lucky, a lot of it can be discussed in grouping, I guess, generations of women together. But I also think like, um, each person has a different experience. So it honestly, when we have our discussions, sometimes it becomes a little bit more about personality. But also I think you still not, I wouldn't say like impose old ideals. 'cause I don't think that's true, but like, you still are rooted in your traditional values, which is fair, like, can't change. Exactly. Like that's what you're, you're a product of that time. Right. Um, and some of it I agree with, but yes. Like, I think when, um, like maybe friction can happen is when you come in with your thought about something, and I'm like, for example, moving in with a partner before marriage, you were like, what do you mean? Like, nobody did that. And then you're like, okay, I see that people are doing that now, but you shouldn't be living together for more than a few months before then getting a ring. And you still feel that. And I'm like, grandma, all of my friends lived together at least a year before. And there's just like those kind of conver, I know that's a, like silly one, but those kind of conversations that you're still coming in with that mindset. And I'm like, that's not how it is.

GAIL:

Well, it's not how you perhaps don't perceive it. Uh, but there are people who still feel the other way that if you've, you know, that you don't learn that much, you've already going, uh, unless you've only known the young man or the young woman for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, if you've known somebody for a couple of years, there's not gonna be that much difference living together. So after a few months, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work if it works, you know, I don't think these, um, these relationships should be non, you know, seemingly endless. Uh, which I see so often. And then all of a sudden when somebody wakes up after a year and says, you know what? I'm not really that crazy about this guy. I gotta move on. Which should have been moved on perhaps a year ago. Uh, so I think sometimes because everyone's busy with their careers and not so centered on their relationship at this point in their lives, they don't think about it. But then time moves on and, and you, you know, you, a lot of, a lot of people waste a lot of time, you know, with, with relationships that are not going someplace. Gail,

SREELA:

What do you think is one thing that this generation gets right?

GAIL:

Well, I, I think they get, they're, they're thinking, they're thinking more openly about ideas about the world situation. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but they are thinking and trying to make a difference. Most people are trying to make a difference. Um, and I think that's very important. I think we've all always wanted that, um, but have been intimidated in the past. And I think now young people, um, hopefully the thinking young people, the people who really think out thoughts are, are, are trying to really make this a, a wonderful place to live. And I like that. Don't you agree, Kim? Yeah.

SREELA:

Kim, what's one thing that you, your takeaway from your grandmother's generation, that

KIM:

You like, as I said, okay. Well, what I like, and I'm gonna get there, but just off the bat, like I watch every fifties movie. I listened to all the music from that time. I loved the, what seemed like, um, I don't know, like the courtship process in relationships. So like the chivalry was there, the opening the door, the pulling out the chair. Like I love all of that stuff. Um, that's not a deep one, but no,

GAIL:

It's not deep. That's, but um, it was, it was actually though, because there was no sex involved in most relationships prior to the seventies. It was, it was a courtship. So it was idealized in the movie screen. Yeah. And you know, on the movie, it's idealized. Exactly. It was idealized. And, and, um, a lot of it was nonsense. Of course. Um, it was not Doris Day and Mark Hudson in real life. But that was the image that they tried to portray.

KIM:

Yeah. And I think a lot of us, um, which is why sometimes I think people like hearing like your perspective and stories. A lot of people around my age, like, they kind of want that simpler time because especially with dating, it is so like, oversaturated and complicated. And there's dating apps and there's meeting at a bar and there's meeting through a family friend, and there's like all these different things. And that's just in the dating world. But I just feel like sometimes thinking about a simpler time, uh, is what I sort of like cherish from that time.

SREELA:

Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. It's like this nostalgic time that was real. And it's like, we miss it, even though we didn't maybe experience it in our

KIM:

.

GAIL:

We miss it. Well, you can't have it today because of the telephone, because of communication. You can't, social media, I mean, this has changed the, the world. So, you know, nobody knew what you were doing in your house in the fifties and the sixties or the forties. So it was very different. It was a much more private time.

KIM:

And also everyone now is glorifying any type of nostalgia, not even from that time, but like, look at pop culture in general. Like everything is a revival or a reboot. Right. Or, you know, Hannah Montana's doing a one night special next year. Like everything is just about, um, even early two thousands. Everyone's talking about 2016 right now randomly. Uh, which like, I don't even think was good fashion or anything, but, um, everyone's like really craving the past in the last few years.

SREELA:

I think it, it can maybe boil down to being able to honor the past while being present in the, you know, present. You know, being mindful of the present, knowing like, what can we learned from the past? What were the good that we can kind of bring with us? And I think that's been a theme that's come up a lot in this conversation is there's so much we can learn from in the past, taking the good kind of,

GAIL:

'cause it was a lot of bad stuff. Yeah. There

SREELA:

Lot stuff.

GAIL:

Great. Don't forget there was a lot of bad stuff in the fifties, sixties, and seventies course.

SREELA:

Absolutely. And I think that's it. You know, it goes back to that balance piece, right. Being able to take, bring in, you know, keep the good, throw out the bad, and then how can we evolve from that? Yeah. Correct. I, I love it. So, Gail, just to, you know, as like a point to end on, you know, what's one thing you wish that Kim knew about what it was like for you growing up in the time that you were raised?

GAIL:

When I was growing up, I, I, I think I, I don't know if it would be a matter of growing up because my growing up period I think was an idyllic time in America that you can't have again. Um, so that, I, I, I don't think we'll ever see the fifties again really for another, for generations, because there was no war, there was no conversation. We had very steady politics. They, it, it was, it was a very different time. You're not gonna recreate the fifties again. We can think about how wonderful they were, but they weren't also wonderful. So we have to, we have to remember that, um, what I think about as a young person who was married in the early sixties, I think I, I would like Kim and all the people who listened to us to realize we had to make a lot of choices.

Women especially had to make a lot of choices. Where were we gonna take our lives? And I think what I would like to, to say is that all the choices we made, we thought we were doing the best we could. Could we have done better? Yes. Probably as a woman, I could have led a very different life if I was a woman today starting out. But that wasn't the choice then. So I think we can, I just, I hope the women today take away one thing for me. Don't think you're gonna have it all. 'cause you're not, make choices that will make you happy. And then be flexible. Because being flexible is very important in life. And it's, um, something that we all have to learn no matter what age we are. So you have to realize what the basic, uh, ideals you have for making your own future. And if you wanna be a lawyer, you wanna be in showbiz, go do it. I mean, have fun and do it, but remember you have to have a balance.

SREELA:

Perspective.

GAIL:

Perspective.

SREELA:

Love it. I love that. That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yay. I just wanna say thank you so much for joining us today and for, for having this lovely conversation. I really enjoyed it. Um, thank you for leading such a great conversation.

When curiosity matters more than consensus

SREELA:

Listening to Kim and Gail, what really stands out to me is their generosity toward each other. They make room for each other’s stories and experiences.

Because when we understand the context someone grew up in, the expectations they carried, the options they believed they had, something shifts. We stop trying to measure whether their perspective is “right,” and we start asking what shaped their point of view.

So what actually makes conversations like this productive? What can we learn from Kim and Gail about having talks like this with our own loved ones?

To explore all this and more, I sat down with my colleague and friend Sonni Williams, a licensed mental health therapist with BetterHelp. Together, we talk about curiosity, intergenerational wisdom, and staying open to all perspectives.

We’ve also got a couple of listener questions in this episode that we unpack together. And if you’d like to send in one of your own, check out BetterHelp’s social media for the latest prompt.

Let’s dive in.

SREELA:

How are you doing, Sonni?

SONNI:

I am doing good. I'm so excited to be here.

SREELA:

Super excited. So happy to have you here. This is fantastic. Loving it. Um, so our first episode, which was a lot about what it was it like to be a woman in the 1960s. Um, you know, it was really interesting because a lot of it had to do with being women in differing generations and the evolution of those roles and expectations and all of that stuff. A theme that came up, right, is that respect isn't about having consensus. It's about being able to agree to disagree a lot of times, and, you know, navigating those difficult conversations again, with that lens of respect.

SREELA:

One of the things that came up during the podcast, uh, with Kim and Gail was, um, this idea of coming at it from a place of curiosity, rather than coming at it from a place of judgment. Help me to understand why you have this perspective. Right? And I think also across certain cultures, there's also just that unwritten, you know, expectation of, you know, I'm your elder, you listen to me, I'm the authority. I'm always right. And I think we're seeing a pivot cross generationally, cross-culturally where that's getting challenged. Going along with this theme, how do you decide which differences are worth talking through and which ones you need to maybe just let go of?

SONNI:

That is a great question. I think, let's see, if I can't come to a place of curiosity like you shared or a place of openness where I'm just like, uh, I don't even know if I'm, I'm curious in this regard, then I might not even open the door to that conversation. Whatever the, the topic may be. Like if I, that comes with a self-awareness piece, like if I know what's in myself, whatever you say, mom or grandma, I'm just gonna be like, ah, I, I can't even, I can't even get there from a place of just genuine curiosity. Then, then don't start, don't start the conversation, right? You have to at least either be open, be curious, want to understand at some level, or want to share at some level, right?

SREELA:

You know, while Gail was really understanding about, you know, the lifestyle differences between herself and her granddaughter, that's not always the case, right? It's not always that, if you will, quote easy. Sometimes it's a lot more complex and it's a lot more layered and there's a lot more conflict in those situations. You know, how could somebody approach keeping a positive relationship with their parent or grandparent, uh, while also having an independent lifestyle?

SONNI:

So I've worked with a few clients on this, and the first step that we always do is kind of remove whatever that title is. We remove the title of grandma, we remove the title of mom, parent, and we just look at them as a person. 'cause a lot of times that title keeps us from saying certain things or acting in certain ways, just simply because of the title. So I always ask my clients, let's, let's remove that title. If this was just a friend, say you're just talking to a friend, how would you navigate the conversation differently? And then from that lens, we at least have a starting point of, okay, well if it wasn't my mom, then, you know, I could just say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever the case may be. And I was like, okay, well let's start there.

Because before they were mom, they were a per, they were a person. They're still that person. They still had their own kind of thoughts and feelings beyond I'm mom, so that's an important first step. And then past that, once you've kind of taken off that title, it's looking at, okay, at what point will I need to set a boundary, right? Because at the end of the day, if your mind is made up, this is a lifestyle that you've chosen, whatever the case may be, then at some point there needs to be a boundary. Like, I can only talk so much, I can only, you know, understand so much, be open so much, but at a certain point I may have to set a boundary so that the relationship can still exist.

“The consequence of the boundary that you set is not meant to be punitive. It’s for you.”

SREELA:

I, I, I think you hit on some really key points there. So I love that you said that. I think that's really great. Um, so we did have a listener write in, um, and ask this question, how do you work through conflicting views of femininity, career, motherhood, et cetera.

SONNI:

That is heavy. Okay.

SREELA:

Juicy, juicy question. I love it. Great question.

SONNI:

Very layered. Uh, very, I think you would have to start with one at a time. 'cause yes, those things can be intertwined, but they can mean so many different things, right? And I, I think it would be helpful if I had a better understanding of where they, where they were in regards to some of those things. 'cause again, it's about kind of setting a boundary at a certain point of saying, you know, this is how I can speak to motherhood since I'm a mother. I'd be like, okay, well this is how I mother, my grandmother and my mom did certain things where I'm like, uh, okay, I, I can, I can understand that to a certain extent, but I'm going to choose to do it this way. It, you know, it's a different time. Things have changed a bit, and I'm going to adopt what makes sense for me and my baby.

So I can see it being the same way with career. Like, okay, maybe you, your mom didn't want you to work a career. Maybe that wasn't the norm, but you're, you're very focused on, you know, wanting to navigate the corporate lifestyle or move up the ladder. And that should be okay. So I, I feel like it just depends on what part of this very juicy question you're trying to, to lean into and kind of like pick it apart piece by piece, right. To, to figure out the best way to kind of open up that door to conversation.

SREELA:

I think the thing that comes out of your response to that question, and that resonated with me as I was doing the podcast with Gail and Kim, is that there is no one right way.

SONNI:

Yeah. It's there.

SREELA:

You know, and as you were talking, Sonni, I'm thinking, I was reflecting on my grandmother's, uh, my mother and me, and the differences in just three generations of, of women. And you know, I have daughters too, so there's that, it's like, continue. Now we're four generations, right? Yes. And, and it's funny because when I think back to when my, I was growing up, my mother was one of the first working mothers and was very much a role model. It was, even when I was growing up, my mother had to deal with a lot of pressure and a lot of challenges around being that mom, you know? And she had to get the earful, uh, from, you know, socially within the family. And now for me it's like, well, of course I'm a working mother. Why wouldn't, why would I be other, right? Because I had that role model.

SONNI:

Great question.

SREELA:

And again, to your point, and you made me think of untangling a ball of yarn, because it isn't just as simple as pulling one string. It's everything is, you know, all together. It's all one big piece because it's you, it's really, really about being able to dissect and understand what leads into what. So I think that's a great, great way of putting it. A hundred percent. Um, do you have tips for like how to not get defensive and staying curious when these challenges come up?

What boundaries protect, and what can still be learned across generations

SONNI:

So this answer might be a little spicy, but I feel like some people go into the conversation already at times not being open already saying, okay, well, I know they're gonna say this and I'm gonna be right back at them with this. Like, they kind of already enter the conversation on the defense. Um, and that happens more times than not, because we, we replay these narratives over and over again, these conversations before they even happen. And we're like, okay, I, I'm, I'm ready for this conversation. I know that this is what they're gonna say. So this is what I'm gonna say. And before we know it, we are not listening. We're going into the conversation almost like we're going into battle. So the first thing is to have like a gut check with yourself to being like, okay, am I in a place where I can have this conversation?

Like, am I ready for this conversation? Right? For it to truly be a conversation and not a disagreement or an argument or a confrontation. So it, it starts with yourself and having a bit of self-awareness to see temperature check with myself, am am I ready for this conversation? And if you truly are, then it should be to the point of, okay, they may say this, but I'm not gonna let that throw me off. I'm not gonna let that upset me, and I'm going to have like my key points that I wanna get across in this conversation. Because there's nothing wrong with preparing for a conversation, but you can't go into it being like, okay, well they're gonna say this, so I'm gonna say that. You have to go into it. Like, this is what I'm hoping to get across. These are the things that I'm going to focus on. If the conversation goes this way, I'm gonna try to pivot it back to this point that I'm trying to, to make and at a certain point, if we can't get there, then like we talked about, having that edit in ourselves to be like, okay, well I need to step away, or, we can try this again another day. So I mean, it starts yourself really.

SREELA:

Yeah. And you said temperature check. I love that you said temperature check yourself. Right. Because you can't control the other person's temperature, but you can control your own and how you choose to react to that or how you go into it, right? Yes. So I think those are great points to bring up. And you mentioned boundaries. This has been a theme here today for us this morning, right? Yes. And you know, while it's tough for some people, how do you start setting boundaries? Like, what's a good place to start?

SONNI:

Yes. Okay. So boundaries get tricky for a beginner, right? Because it's, it's very much a, for you practice. A lot of people feel like I set the boundary. If they don't do it, then they need to be punished in some way. It needs to be punitive. And the consequence of the boundary that you set is not meant to be punitive. It's for you. And so it's really an exercise and discipline because you're telling yourself, if the next time I go over mom's house, if she's saying anything about why I'm not married yet, then I'm going to whatever the consequences. And that can be like, I'm going to start limiting my visits, or I'm going to explain to my mom that we can only talk about these topics until I feel like there's more of an understanding there. So it's more about the discipline piece, right?

Because it's easy to set the boundary of saying, well, they're not gonna talk to me like this, or I'm not gonna stay at work past five o'clock, or, or whatever the case may be that you're setting the boundary for. But then it's the discipline piece that's the consequence. It's, it's not punitive for the other person. It's you saying, I respect myself enough to say I don't want to put myself in certain situations. I don't wanna be talked to in certain ways. I wanna respect my time, whatever the case may be. And then you need to back it up with discipline to make it happen.

SREELA:

Discipline. It's not punitive. No. And it's for you. That's I think, so important. When people talk about boundaries, it's for you. Yes, exactly. You know, and this is protecting you and your sanity, your safety, your sense of self. Right?

SREELA:

I'm going to shift a little bit in topic and talk a little bit about inter intergenerational learning, right? And how it's a two-way street. It goes both ways, right? Yes. Yes. Um, and I, I love this. And again, I grew up with, you know, basically like two other generations around me, right? Like, I had my grandmother's influence, I had my mother's influence. Um, you know, and so I can appreciate the intergenerational kind of exchange of ideas and, and, and all of that. Um, we're in an era, uh, where staying connected is interesting because in some ways we are much more accessible to each other, right? We can stay connected. So here we are, we're so overly connected, the, it's almost like the world shrunk. And yet at the same time, we're so siloed, right? And, you know, we get stuck kind of in that generational bubble, like, well, this is my generation, this is your generation. You know, how can we learn, like open the doors to the silos so that the two generations can mix and learn from each other? What do you think would work, or what would help?

SONNI:

Well, if you, if we're talking about in regards to family, I wanna say go back to what I said about removing that title and just having genuine conversations and wanting to understand. My grandmothers are in their nineties, and I'm always like, oh, wow. Like, what can, what should I ask them? There's so, there's such a wealth of knowledge in things, and yes, some of their thoughts and feelings are very different from my own, but I'm always fascinated when I can kind of crack the shell a little bit and just see them as the person, or get them talking about a memory of, you know, their time when they were younger or around my age. And even though it looked very different, right? And so just having that openness and that curiosity that we've been speaking about can just be like, so just, ugh, you can just come away with it so inspired or just learning more about yourself in those moments and conversations.

SREELA:

Absolutely. It, it's amazing to me. It's incredible to me. But I was just sharing with my kids over the weekend, I think about how my one grandmother had 11 children, and God bless her. You know, I'm like, I don't know how she did that. And my grandfather traveled due to work and, you know, and, and it was, she was basically operating as a single mother in the 1940s into the 1950s. And with that many children, and still managed to get them all into college and school.

SONNI:

.

SREELA:

I got two, and I feel like I can't handle it half the time. You know what I mean?

SONNI:

I have two. I'm like, what? How are you guys out here with mul? Multiple multiples.

SREELA:

Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly same. Same. You know? So, you know, I, I wish I had that wealth of knowledge to draw on, you know, and to ask those questions of even asking like, what did stop you? You know, or what, what held you back or what helped propel you forward? Right? Those are, I think, great probing questions. You know, if somebody doesn't have a healthy relationship with extended family, older generations, things like that, you know, what are some other ways that they can seek intergenerational wisdom? Like what are some other methods or means that they could do that?

SONNI:

The first would be like to look around you, look into your community. I know a lot of times we, when we speak about use your village, it's usually around parenthood, like rely on your village. But even if you are not a parent, it's still very important to have a sense of community. And if you don't have that with your family, you need to find ways to build that for yourself. So that looks like getting involved in your community. You can always volunteer, right? Volunteering is always a wealth of just experience. I'll say that. Just people you get to meet from when you volunteer, or you can lend your time to, you know, go into some, some elderly homes, see how you can help, see how you can expand someone else's life. And that's also very enriching in a way that you can get a, a breadth of knowledge. And then also look for mentorship. Like, depending on what your work looks like, look, look out for mentors. Um, reach out and extend that. Right. Extend it. Don't be afraid to ask for what it is you feel like you may need, what you might be looking for. And so if you don't have that in your family, don't be afraid to go out there and build it for yourself.

“If trauma isn’t meant to be inherited, why does it behave like an heirloom?”

SREELA:

I think, I think that's great. Great advice. Great wisdom. So, so Sonni, uh, we had another listener question kind of come in. Okay. And it's a really good question, and I think it'll be helpful to have a fellow therapist help me unpack this one. So it's a really good question. Okay. If trauma isn't meant to be inherited, why does it behave like an heirloom? And how can one generation choose not to pass it on?

SONNI:

Oh, I love that. An heirloom.

SREELA:

Oh, good.

SONNI:

An heirloom trauma. I love that.

SREELA:

I love it too.

SONNI:

Let's circle back to the trauma piece, right? Because you spoke about being raised by your grandmothers and your mother and how you were able to see your mom as a working mom, so then it became the norm for you. Right? And it'll become the norm for your daughters unless they choose differently, right? So it can, it doesn't necessarily have to be trauma. We can get to that. 'cause a lot of, a lot of times people talk about it's kind of trendy, like healing trauma and, you know, breaking generational curses. I am with all of that, but there needs to be something said for the positive things that can also be an, an heirloom of sorts. Because you had that role model, you were able to see, oh, that's, that's normal. And same, my, my mom worked in higher education, she was a principal. She wore power suits.

And so I was like, oh, I'm going into the corporate world. I'm wearing heels every day. That did not last, but I had that role, I had that role model to be like, I'm gonna be a working woman and I'm gonna take over the world. And that was the norm in our household. So it can go both ways. Right. So I, I would first say, examine. Is there anything, anything positive that you've been able to take from a previous generation that you see in yourself? Yeah. That's very constant, very present that you can kind of attach to, oh, I, I got that from somewhere and I'm, I'm proud of that. And then on the flip side, from a trauma lens, you have to do the work. And that's, that's the not so fun part. If you want to change something that you have seen for generations, you cannot expect for it to be easy. You cannot expect for it to be swift because a lot of that is ingrained in us. Like we may wanna say, no, it's not. But I mean, there, there's science behind it. We, we do carry, we do carry trauma. And so you have to be willing to do the work for yourself at first. And then once the work is done, then future generations that possibly come from you will reap the benefits.

SREELA:

Love it. I love it. Such a good conversation. Sonni. Well Sonni, thank you so much for joining us today. This was a fantastic, um, conversation. I really enjoyed having you.

SONNI:

Yes. Thank you so much. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed my time with you today, Sreela.

SREELA:

I want to give a big thank you to BetterHelp for their passion behind this project, and for giving us a platform to champion the well-being in all of us. Mind If We Talk? is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with BetterHelp, and hosted by me, Sreela Roy Greene. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and share with your friends! Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life. And remember, your happiness matters.

Mind If We Talk is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.