Mind If We Talk? Season 2: Growing Together, Not Apart in Parenthood

Welcome to Episode 5 of Mind If We Talk? Season 2

Mind If We Talk? is an original mental health podcast created by BetterHelp and Acast Creative Studios that opens up real conversations about life’s challenging moments, and how therapy can help us navigate them. Over the course of 10 episodes, Season 2 brings two people together to share different perspectives on experiences that are deeply felt, yet rarely discussed. Through guided conversation, guests reflect on what they wish others understood about their inner world and what it means to truly listen and be seen. Each episode is hosted by Dr. Sreela Roy-Greene, a licensed BetterHelp therapist, who gently guides the conversation and offers therapeutic insight along the way.

Episode 5: Children Changed Our Marriage

Becoming a parent changes everything. Your schedule, your sleep, your sense of self. And often, your relationship, too. But that’s not the part we tend to talk about.

On this episode of Mind If We Talk?, host and licensed mental health counselor Sreela Roy-Greene sits down with Olympic gymnast Shawn Johnson and former NFL pro Andrew East, a married couple of ten years and parents to three children. Their journey into parenthood was anything but easy. It began with an unplanned pregnancy, a miscarriage that brought grief on different timelines, and, later, a difficult postpartum experience that neither Shawn nor Andrew quite understood at the time. In this intimate conversation, Shawn and Andrew share the ways in which becoming parents has tested them — from the moment Andrew decided they needed a therapist’s help to how they’ve managed to keep choosing each other, even when things get really hard.

Later in the show, Sreela is joined by licensed therapist Sonni Williams from BetterHelp. Together, they explore what couples underestimate most about having a baby, how to recognize the signs of postpartum mood disorders, and a 3 a.m. exercise every couple should try before the baby arrives.

If you’re navigating the transition into parenthood, recovering from pregnancy loss, or just feeling like you and your partner have become ships in the night, this episode is for you.

When the news comes before you’re ready

SHAWN:

I remember taking a pregnancy test and I remember thinking, I can’t tell him yet… is this what he wants? I just didn’t know because he was chasing this dream in the NFL. I was like, I can’t throw this on him as he’s going for three of the most important, you know, tryouts that he had… And so I remember I waited to tell him and I have never been so terrified in my life.

SREELA:

Welcome back to ‘Mind If We Talk?’, where you get to be a fly on the wall for mini therapy sessions, and learn some mental health tips in the process.

I’m your host Sreela Roy-Greene, a licensed mental health counselor with over 19 years of experience.

Today, we’re talking about one of the most beautiful and quietly destabilizing transitions a couple can go through: becoming parents.

Having a child changes everything; your schedule, your sleep, your sense of self… and often, your relationship too. You and your partner suddenly have to make room for someone new. Someone who needs constant care and attention.

Today, we’re speaking with Shawn Johnson, the renowned American gymnast and Olympic gold medalist, and Andrew East, a former NFL athlete who’s played for the Seattle Seahawks and Oakland Raiders.

Shawn and Andrew have been married for ten years and are parents to three children. But their journey into parenthood was not straightforward. It began with an unplanned pregnancy, followed by a miscarriage, and later a difficult experience with postpartum depression that neither of them fully saw coming.

Later in our episode, I’ll sit down with BetterHelp licensed therapist Sonni Williams. We’ll talk about what’s really happening, psychologically and emotionally, when couples navigate pregnancy loss, postpartum, and the identity shift that comes with becoming parents. And we’ll get into some practical tools you can use, too.

Let’s get to talking.

The relationship models we carry into parenthood

SREELA:

When you think back on your families growing up, how do you feel that influenced your perspective on marriage, children, building your own family?

SHAWN:

My parents got married and they were 16. They came from very, very troubled and very hard upbringings, and they were the escape from that for each other. They had a hard marriage. They fought and they had so many things to work through. But I never saw them quit on each other ever. And it was the greatest gift I was ever given as a child — seeing them day after day fight for each other, even though it wasn’t always easy. I think it gave me the gift in our relationship of saying like, we’re gonna fight. It’s gonna be really hard. But you know what, I’m never gonna leave. I will be here forever.

ANDREW:

My parents were high school sweethearts. My mom was a cheerleader at Purdue, my dad was a football player at Purdue. And they displayed a pretty amazing love in our family. What I have learned growing up is that it is really dynamic with families. Whether it’s grief or a transition or some family drama, you dynamically move around in different kinds of ways.

Finding out — and waiting to say it

SREELA:

You were married in 2016 and later found out you were expecting. Shawn, can you share a little bit about how it was sharing that news with Andrew?

SHAWN:

We got married in April of 2016. A couple months later I jumped on a four or five month performance tour where we weren’t together. He was bouncing around the NFL. We were basically living separate lives for a full year.

I remember taking a pregnancy test — and this was not in the conversations yet — as we were running out the door for three back-to-back tryouts in different places in the country. I was heading out for a press tour. And I remember thinking, I can’t tell him yet. He was so ambitious in chasing this dream in the NFL. I was like, I can’t throw this on him as he’s going for three of the most important tryouts that he had.

I waited a week. I flew to New York City, I retook all these tests just to make sure. And I have never been so terrified in my life because we hadn’t talked about it. I convinced Andrew to come home early. I didn’t want to tell him over the phone. And I remember when I walked in just feeling so scared. Every single person in my circle had sacrificed their world to help me see my dream through. And I felt like it was my job to do that for him. So when I got pregnant, it scared me that I wasn’t in some way being the best supporter.

ANDREW:

She had clearly way more thoughts about that situation. I was pretty much: holy smoke, she’s pregnant — am I ready to be a dad? We sat on the couch the whole night, laughing, crying, brainstorming, looking up pictures, trying to come up with names.

SREELA:

It’s one of the most conflicting moments in anybody’s life — simultaneously joyful and scared to death.

ANDREW:

The readiness doesn’t come before the commitment. You’re ready as the result of the commitment. You jump into the water and you figure it out.

“The readiness doesn’t come before the commitment. You’re ready as the result of the commitment.” — Andrew

Grief on different timelines

SREELA:

I want to touch on something deeper — the miscarriage you experienced, and that loss. How did it impact your relationship to navigate that difficult time?

SHAWN:

We had talked all night and finally gone to bed and woken up smitten — okay, this is happening, this is what we’re doing. And it was like mid that day that I miscarried. Nobody prepares you for it. In my mind it was: was I too stressed? Did I abuse my body too much from gymnastics? I had suffered from eating disorders for years, abused diet pills. In my head it was all of these things that I failed at already as a mother that caused it. And I was in such a sad place and I didn’t know how to voice any of that to him.

We got connected with an OB-GYN in LA, and I can still hear his voice. He brought us into his office and said: if you hear anything, I need you to look me in the eyes and hear this. It’s nothing that you did. You did not cause this. And I just remember bawling. I don’t know if I even to this day believe it. I went through many other miscarriages in between children, but I don’t know what it was about the first one. I remember the due date. I remember when it happened. And it caused a lot of tension between us — only in the sense that I didn’t know how to voice that I needed help, or to explain this feeling that I felt like I had lost a baby.

“I felt so much grief and I didn’t know how to share it.” — Shawn

ANDREW:

We haven’t talked about this in a while. So much has changed — it’s almost like reflecting back on a whole different side of life. All those things she just voiced: I don’t think she could have voiced those back then. And there was also this new identity that you almost assume. I was like, okay, I’m a dad now, I’m playing dad mode. And then that doesn’t pan out like you think it does. Your identity doesn’t really shift back once you take that leap. Shawn was ready to try for another kid right after that, and I was still trying to make sure we had processed through it. So there were a lot of dynamics going on.

SREELA:

What you’re talking about is so common when you experience a collective, joint grief like that. There isn’t a playbook or a rule book around how you’re supposed to navigate that — other than to just navigate it.

How parenthood changes communication

SREELA:

How has your communication style changed since becoming parents?

SHAWN:

The way it changed the most after our first kid was going from two individuals who led very separate lives, who were married before we had a kid — and then all of a sudden we had a kid and it was like, oh, we actually have to talk through everything. We actually have to be completely unified. It was a huge transition for us.

ANDREW:

When we first got married it’s a fun, hey, I’m roommates with my best friend. Then you have a kid and you become like an amoeba. Anytime one person does their own thing, it has an effect on the rest of the group. You’re tied together in a totally different way.

It took us honestly probably a year into having our second child before we really formalized our strategy on how we were going to make it through this in a together fashion — and not have a power struggle.

“Your habits get exposed in a really unique way with parenting. Your stylistic differences too.” — Andrew

So our strategy has been to be highly structured and rigid with our communication. Every night after we put the kids to bed, we have what we call “bev time” — little five-minute check-ins to debrief the day. Weekly on Sunday nights we do a broader planning session. Anytime there’s a pattern we see that’s frustrating, we give it a month to confirm it’s persistent before bringing it up. As opposed to just reacting in the moment.

Postpartum — when drowning looks like coping

SREELA:

A lot changes from pregnancy to giving birth — not just our bodies, but our psychological, mental, and emotional selves. How did you both navigate that time, Shawn?

SHAWN:

Andrew came up with these non-negotiable things that I would have to do every day — getting sunlight, watching a funny movie. It was really sweet. I had very typical challenges with the first and second: figuring out a new identity, a new rhythm of life.

I went into our third pregnancy thinking it was just like every other. Our third baby is the greatest blessing, but he was so different than the other two. He wasn’t sleeping. He was a colicky baby. I didn’t realize, as I was taking care of him, that I was losing control of myself.

“I could feel myself drowning, but I didn’t know how to ask for help for myself because I knew it was my job to figure out how to help my baby first.” — Shawn

I remember having really out-of-body experiences. By the time I could help our baby, I had lost control to where I didn’t even know how to work myself back to normal. I feel guilty that I didn’t enjoy it as much as the others. I wish I remembered it more. And it caused so much tension between us because I didn’t know what was wrong.

SREELA:

Were there moments where you ever felt misunderstood?

SHAWN:

The whole time. I was supposed to be loving the baby phase, but there wasn’t a single point that I felt like I could be happy about it. I was obsessed with the idea of having to help him — figure out the feeding, the sleeping. But in obsessing so much over the baby, I wasn’t able to go play with my big kids, and I felt like I was being a bad mom to them. And if I ever had time away from the baby and went to play with the kids, then I felt like I wasn’t being a good wife. I felt completely misunderstood in every category.

ANDREW:

It’s disorienting, it’s discouraging. You start questioning as a partner: I just don’t know what to do. I probably didn’t prioritize the softness — just sitting and listening — as well as I could have. I was still like, okay, let’s get you sunlight, let’s go do this thing. Because I was trying to find the solution.

SHAWN:

I remember one point things had gotten just not normal. We were disconnected, and I was cold and distant. And I’ll never forget — he sat me down and said, we’re going to therapy. My very first reaction was that I was so emotionless. I didn’t have the energy to argue, didn’t have the energy to feel anything. I was just kind of like, okay, great. And it was the very first thing that started healing me. It was the greatest gift you ever gave us.

ANDREW:

I got to a point where I realized I was completely out of my depth. We needed professional perspective on this.

SREELA:

That feeling of helplessness is sometimes the best gift we can get — because it’s sometimes what finally gets us to ask for help.

Therapy as maintenance, not crisis response

SREELA:

Do you feel like therapy or any other tools helped with navigating these experiences?

SHAWN:

Massively. Our very first glimpse into the gift of therapy was premarital counseling — it’s a requirement in Andrew’s family, which was such a blessing. We became like best friends with our premarital counselor. After we got married, we learned we had this tendency to only go to counseling when things got bad. We’ve now started setting goals of doing it proactively — just for maintenance.

ANDREW:

Anytime you speak or write something, you’re putting it out onto the table in a way that allows you to be a third-party audience to it. That’s what a therapist does so well — pulling it out and making it feel way less personal.

SREELA:

Is there any advice you would give to other couples who may be struggling in their relationships after becoming parents?

ANDREW:

Right around the time we had our first kid, we started doing mandatory weekly date nights. Every Wednesday at 5 p.m. We ask for help — we let the village help raise the child, whether it be friends or family. Some nights we say two words to each other and just sit in silence because we’re tired or mad or whatever. And then other nights it’s the most refreshing thing we’ll look forward to all week.

SHAWN:

We’ve gone through a lot of really hard things. We have very complicated lives.

“Rather than ever question the commitment, it was always: who do we need to go find? What do we need to do to help preserve it?” — Shawn

What couples underestimate about having a baby

SREELA:

Shawn and Andrew have a way of speaking about and to each other with so much tenderness and love. And I think that’s what allows them to go to the hard places together — at the end of the day, they truly function as a team.

To help me unpack things further, I sat down with Sonni Williams, a licensed therapist with BetterHelp. We talked about different postpartum mood disorders, what to keep an eye out for in your partner, and how to get to know each other at 3 a.m. — before the baby even arrives.

SREELA:

Sonni, one of the most bittersweet stories that Shawn shared was when there was an unplanned pregnancy — not even on the radar for them. What do you think it is about that sort of news that causes someone to hesitate, even when they’re in a committed relationship?

SONNI:

It’s a life-changing event, for better or for worse. It’s important to take that time to just sit with it — are we ready for this? Will this hurt my career? Will this change us and our dynamic? And being okay to have that conversation.

SREELA:

How does a person navigate making sacrifices about specific aspects of their life — for themselves and for their partner?

SONNI:

When you’re talking about sacrifices with a partner, I always love what former first lady Michelle Obama said about having that moment where it was like — for these eight to ten years, it was me lifting the load. And when those aspects come into play, it’s important to remember: we are a team. Eventually my time will also come. Knowing that your partner has your back in that give and take.

From the individual aspect, it’s important to handle yourself with kid gloves. We do such a good job of caring for the baby’s needs that we forget: what do I need in this moment? Letting yourself understand that it’s temporary — it’s never supposed to be a full sacrifice where you have nothing left at the end of the day.

SREELA:

If a couple is confronting something like an unplanned pregnancy, do you feel like therapy could be helpful?

SONNI:

I speak a lot with parents about interpersonal therapy, which focuses on transitions. Becoming a parent is a huge transition. That therapy focuses on who you were, the grieving process of grieving who you were, and learning how to be this new version of yourself. Really having your partner walk alongside you with that — because you’re becoming new people together. You’re entering parenthood together. Therapy can be an excellent tool to help you get prepared for that new chapter.

Processing pregnancy loss — on different timelines

SREELA:

When Shawn was processing that miscarriage, it was very easy for her to turn that blame inward. What do you find when people are experiencing that kind of loss?

SONNI:

People experiencing miscarriage want to try to attach a reason. And even though in vast cases it’s completely out of your control, it’s human nature to want to attach meaning and say, maybe it’s because I did this or that. That can be very harmful — you’re already going to experience immense grief, your body is still hormonal as if the pregnancy is still moving along. And then the added pressure of: was this my fault? What could I have done differently?

SREELA:

What happens when one partner is ready to try again but the other isn’t?

SONNI:

You can’t force it. And I know for the person who may be ready, that’s the hard part to hear. The other person could have fear of another miscarriage, fear of: what happens if I lose you next time? You have to be able to talk to your partner — why are you ready? Why am I not? That’s another point where a therapist could help you facilitate those tough conversations and really get you to a starting point — maybe not a resolution, but a starting point of how do we move forward?

“Maybe not a resolution — but a starting point of how do we move forward?” — Sonni

The full spectrum of postpartum mood disorders

SREELA:

We talk about postpartum, but we don’t talk about it enough. How can you prepare — and what are some of the things you simply can’t prepare for?

SONNI:

Perinatal mental health is my jam. One thing I want to clear up: a lot of people are familiar with postpartum depression, but there’s a whole umbrella of terms called PMADs — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. That includes postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum OCD, and in some severe and rare cases, postpartum psychosis.

You can’t necessarily avoid it, but you can prepare better. Having a support system in place is key. And the second piece that helps is awareness: if you’re already susceptible to certain mental health concerns — say you already have anxiety — you may be more likely to have postpartum anxiety. Talk to your doctors, talk to your support team. Say: here’s what I’m noticing, here’s what I’m afraid of — what should I be on the lookout for? Not going into it alone is everything.

SREELA:

Having gone through my own two experiences, I was underprepared — and I felt very isolated because it was like, I don’t want to give voice to this, because if I do, then I’m failing. Knowing what to look out for is crucial. How can we recognize those signs — subtle and not so subtle — and support our partners?

SONNI:

One of the main things to look out for is: is it the baby blues, or is it a PMAD? If it’s lasting more than two weeks, that’s not baby blues. Are they extremely weepy? Are they having scary thoughts? Knowing that scary thoughts are a normal part of postpartum depression and anxiety is important — a lot of moms don’t want to say it out loud because they’re afraid people will think they want to harm their baby. But that can be a marker that they might need to reach out for help.

If you notice your partner withdrawing, or that it’s very much them and the baby — they don’t want you to touch the baby, don’t want you to help — those can be signs of postpartum anxiety. With postpartum OCD, you might notice they have to do things in a very specific order, and if something is out of order, their whole day is derailed. With postpartum depression, it’s waves of emotion more frequently than not. They may not be taking care of themselves — the baby is well kept but they’re not showering, not sleeping, almost a shell of themselves. Don’t just let that go by. Ask them what you can take off their plate. Be proactive — we can see the things that need to be done.

With postpartum psychosis, the signs are very clear: hallucinations or delusions, severe confusion, speech that doesn’t make sense. Those signs require immediate medical attention.

SREELA:

I’ve had my own clinical experience with that — it’s a very scary experience, and I don’t think it should be something we don’t talk about. The more education we can get out there, the better. Partners are often hesitant and don’t know what to say. Do you have any tips for how to support a partner who has just had a baby?

SONNI:

Open the conversation generally: “I’ve noticed this — I would like to offer you some support. Would it be helpful if I…” and then fill in the blank. Don’t leave it so open-ended that they can say “I’m fine.” Offer something specific to what you’ve noticed. Name it — but say it in a way that won’t put them on the defensive.

“Caring for themselves is also part of caring for the child.” — Sonni

A lot of times mothers feel it’s their job to take care of the baby. But sometimes they don’t realize that piece of it.

Ships in the night — staying connected as partners

SREELA:

One of the things I think couples underestimate is the impact of becoming parents on the relationship. What do you think couples underestimate the most?

SONNI:

There are all these birthing classes to prepare for getting the baby here — but very little on what to do once the baby is here, and even less about how to sustain your relationship with this new addition. There has to be that piece of: who do we want to be with this new addition? We have to be intentional about it. Even if it’s 15 to 30 minutes — the baby is somewhere safe, and you and I are going to connect. If you have a village, you utilize that village so that you can still date your partner, still communicate, and still remember why you went on this journey together. Because it’s very easy with a newborn to become ships in the night — to become very good at co-parenting but completely disconnected as partners.

SREELA:

Any particular patterns you see come up for new parents when they’re struggling the most?

SONNI:

Everything becomes hyperfocused on the child. Every conversation, every point of connection is about that child. You forget to notice that your partner changed their hair, or that they’ve been struggling at work. The little things — the things you used to love learning about your partner — become distant knowledge when they should be secondhand.

SREELA:

Do you think there are aspects of communication that will need to shift in a partnership once kids are in the picture?

SONNI:

Almost every aspect will need to change. I always tell people: find one to two things that you want to protect — your line in the sand — but be a little loose with everything else and find a new normal. The biggest thing I find with new parents is the intimacy gap. I love that it’s becoming trendy now to schedule joy. People say scheduling intimacy isn’t sexy — so I say: schedule joy. It sounds a whole lot more fun. But you have to be intentional. You’re not going to plan your PTO and then say, never mind, I don’t want to go on vacation. That’s how intentional you need to be about your partnership. If you’ve planned it out, you protect that time fiercely and you make it happen.

“Schedule joy. You have to be intentional about your partnership, your intimacy, your relationship.”

The 3 a.m. exercise every couple should try

SREELA:

When a couple is planning to start their family, what are some exercises or rituals you can recommend to help with preparation?

SONNI:

The top things that come to mind: how do we want to parent? How will we parent this child? Because what we saw with our own parents comes with us into parenthood, and not enough parents talk about: once this child gets here, how will we raise them? Do we want to have a baby, or do we want to build a family? Because the baby season is very short in the scope of what it is you’re doing when you bring life into the world.

And then, once baby is on the way, one activity I always recommend — I assign it as homework — is called “Who Are We at 3 a.m.?” You set an alarm for 3 a.m. and put your phone somewhere far away so you have to get up and go find it. Then you do an activity together that lasts no less than 20 minutes. I have them do this for about a week straight. You start to see: oh, we were changing out the dishes and we started getting snappy with each other. If you see it early and often, you can course correct. You don’t want to wait until the baby is here to figure out how to communicate when you haven’t slept and you’re exhausted.

SREELA:

I love that exercise. You’re strengthening your resilience as a couple in so many different ways. Sonni, I really appreciate you sharing your expertise today. Hopefully our listeners get so much from this.

CREDITS:

SREELA:

I want to give a big thank you to BetterHelp for their passion for this project, and for giving us a platform to champion the well-being in all of us. Mind If We Talk is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with BetterHelp, and hosted by me, Sreela Roy-Greene. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and share the episode with your friends! Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life. And remember, your happiness matters.

Mind If We Talk is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.